Rolleiflex Old standard production info

[Lordcroker]

I'm researching the often neglected early years of the Rolleiflex. My particular interest is in the Old standard as they are one of my personal favourite Rolleiflex cameras!
I know that production started in April 1932, but am unsure when production finished.
I have never seen any advertising literature that features both the Old Standard and Automat, so my best guess is that the Automat took over and for a short period (a year or so) became the only 6x6 Rolleiflex. Later on ('38 or '39) the New standard came along, probably to fill the price gap between the Rolleicord 2 and the Automat.

I know that there were 3 different body styles to the Old standard, all relating to the red film peep windows. The earliest models had 2 windows, one for B2 (120) film and one for the 6 exposure B1 film. The camera was supplied with a blanking plug so that the window that was not in use could be covered up. These cameras were possibly supplied with 2 blanking plugs to prevent any fogging of the film in bright light.

The second type of window arrangement relied on just one at the base of the camera for 120 film. There was a built in rotating cover to cover the window up to prevent fogging of the film.

The third type is basically the same as the second but has a more robust sliding cover arrangement.

I know that there were 3 different lenses, all Tessars but with different apertures. I believed that the earliest had an F4.5, then very quickly they changed to F3.8 followed by F3.5.
However I have seen cameras later than mine (December '32) that have the F4.5 lens. Mine has an F3.8, which is a little puzzling.

I also believe that when Rollei upgraded to an F3.5 lens they also fitted the Compur-rapid shutter with a 1/500th sec top speed, replacing the basic Compur which had a fastest speed of 1/300th.
At the same time I also think that the edges of the film back were Nickel plated rather than being painted black.

When these changes all occured is a very Grey area, can anybody help me out please? Also if anybody owns an Old standard I would be interested to know what body type/lens combination they have with either the first digits of the serial number or better still an actual date of production.
Unlike later Rollei's the Old Standards are easy to date as the date of production is written in pencil on the underside of the mirror! This date relates to the date the mirror was made, but it is accurate to within a few weeks.

Oh, and sometime during production a bubble level was fitted onto the ground glass focussing screen. I have never seen an early model with one fitted, but most later ones do. My guess is that they were fitted from 1933.
This is purely a guess, but the Voigtlander Superb TLR was launched in 1933 and it incorporated as one of it's "unique features" a bubble level in the viewfinder. I imagine that Rollei saw it and thought that it was a good idea, so stole it for their own camera!

Thanks for reading all of that! I hope some found it interesting, at very least I hope you are still awake!

If anybody can clarify what I have said or fill in the gaps I would be most appreciative!

James

[Mike Kovacs]

I don't have all the answers but I believe the f/3.5 lens replaced the f/3.8 - the f/4.5 version was offered throughout the complete production of the Old Standard.

The f/3.5 Old Standard I used to have had a Compur Rapid 1/500 shutter of the earliest style, with B and T that you do not cock to set.

I have another one I'm planing to sell this week. Specs:

Old Standard, 2 red windows, no bubble, No221965
CJZ Tessar 7.5cm 1:3.8 Nr 1374493
Heidoscop 1:3.1 Nr 220055
Compur TB, 1-1/300

This would appear to be an early one. They are nice cameras and can still take great photos. I have some Reala 100 from the above camera that I want to scan and post.

[Lordcroker]

Thanks for your reply Mike.

Interesting view about the F4.5 lens being available throughout all of the production run. That would certainly explain why I have seen later cameras than mine with them fitted.
I initially thought that only the very early examples had them, perhaps using up old stock from the original Rolleiflex.
Unfortunately I have no really early advertising literature. The earliest I have is 1935, followed by '37, '38 and '39.
Both the '35 and '37 brochures have the Old Standard featured, but by '38 only the Automat and the Rolleicord remained. By '39 the New Standard had made it's appearance.

Neither the '35 or '37 brochures list a choice of lenses though in the price list. The 4x4 Rolleiflex had a choice of lenses, but the Old Standard just had the F3.5 with Compur-Rapid shutter. Maybe different markets had different lenses or a choice of lenses? My brochure is for the UK market.

Your camera is an early one, about 18,000 units earlier than mine! I would guess that it was made around early to mid September 1932.

They are indeed great cameras and for contrasty slow speed black and white films (like Ilford Pan F) I actually use it in preference to my 3.5F. The slight loss of contrast caused by the lack of coating seems to open up the mid tones and give a more tonally rich print.

I'd be interested to see your colour shots taken on Reala. How did they turn out? I have seen some colour shots taken by one before and they looked rather lifeless and with a bit of a blue cast.

[akira0827]

Hello, Lordcroker !!

I also have one old standard f3.8, its Specs are :

The second type with a red window at the bottom with a built in rotating cover, S/N 313433
CJZ Tessar 7.5cm 1:3.8 Nr 1501191
Heidoscop 1:3.1 Nr 311163
Compur TB, 1-1/300

My one is no bubble level, so I think my one is a early one, but
I am sorry that I do not know when this one was producted...

And, I agree Mike's opinion. I also think the f/3.5 lens replaced the f/3.8, and the f/4.5 version was made throughout the complete production of the Old Standard.

Thank you

Akira

[Lordcroker]

Thanks for your reply Akira, more good info!

From your cameras serial number my best guess would be that your Rolleiflex was made in late January 1934.
Another one with no bubble level in the finder! Great information as it means that Rollei did not immediately copy Voigtlanders idea. Looks like the bubble finder came in with the F3.5 lens and the Compur rapid shutter.

Still a bit of a mystery about the F4.5 lens though. If the standard was launched with an F3.8 lens and later upgraded to an F3.5, then where does the F4.5 lens fit in?
I will most likely be forced to eat my words, but I have never seen any original literature or price lists that show 2 different versions of the old standard being sold alongside each other. I only have UK market literature though.
If anybody has any scans of old literature that show the 2 models, then I would be very interested to see it! Come to think of it I've never seen any brochures that even mention an F4.5 Old standard either. I'd also be intersted in anything that shows it, even better if it's dated!

[akira0827]

Hello, Lordcroker !!

Recently I have gotten the 3 manuals of old Rollei on Ebay for using my grandfather’s Standard .
( I am very sorry Lordcroker!! Probably I was bidding this item with you …. )

Details are as below :

1. “ Rolleiflex “ ( Colored cover, No issued date, probably issued Later 1932 )
2. “ The automatic camera Rolleiflex “( B/W cover, Issued date Nov, 1933 )
3. “ Practical Accessories to the Rolleiflex and Rolleicord “( B/W cover, Issued date Nov, 1936 )

“ 1. “ refers to the price of Rolleiflex 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 & Rolleiflex 1 5/8 x 1 5/8 as below :
　　　　　　　　Rolleiflex 2 1/4 x 2 1/4
　　　　　　　　　With Tessar f3.8 (Code : Rolleifot) Price ￡22.10
　　　　　　　　　With Tessar f4.5 (Code : Rolleimin) Price ￡20.--
“ 2. “ only refers to the existence of Rolleiflex with Tessar f3.8 & Rolleiflex with Tessar f4.5
“ 3. “only refers to Rolleiflex with Tessar f3.5 (Code : Rolleifirst)

I can scan these 3 manuals and send to you. If you want them or are intersted in them,
please contact with me by P.M.

Thank you

Akira

[sjperry]

As for the three types, I think more differentiates them that just the red window and lens. For a starting point, if we use Evans, "Collectors Guide to Rollei" he defines three different models of the Old Standard:

Type I
3.8 lens, lever advance.

Type II
Same as Type I, but with 4.5 lens.

Type III
3.5 lens, exposure guide on back, larger focusing knob, red window on bottom only, bubble level in viewfinder.

Now, I have seen features on various Rolleis that contrdict the descriptions he gives. I have three Old Standards, which I will give the features of:

S/N 256,147 (Type I). 3.8 Tessar, S/N 1246061. Viewing lens 3.1, S/N 250979. It has the two red windows. no sliding shield,and HAS the exposure guide. No bubble in viewfinder.

S/N 562,825 (Type III). 3.5 Tessar, S/N 1921630. Viewing lens 3.1, S/N 560275. It has red window on the bottom only, with a sliding cover. Has the exposure guide on the back, and the bubble in the viewfinder.

S/N 554,377 (Type III). This one is a parts camera. 3.5 Tessar, S/N 1902270. Viewing lens 3.1 S/N 537150. Has one window on the bottom, exposure guide on the back and bubble in the viewfinder.

I also have two Original model Rolleis, if you are interested in their characteristics. The thought is a good one, about studying the features of these early ones. Maybe I will also start putting together a table of the various features.

[Lordcroker]

Thanks for your reply!

I think that what you have quoted from Evans is pretty well correct and part of me thinks I should just leave it at that!

These cameras are all very old and more than likely have had parts replaced along the years.
Upgrading an early 2 window rear door for one with a sliding cover is an easy and worthwile modification, especially if the little plug for the window has become lost (haven't they all?) I have seen 3.5 type 3 variants with no bubble level. Presumably the original glass screen had cracked and was replaced with a plain glass panel. Or maybe the owner just found the bubble level annoying?
It's also not beyond the realms of possibility that the factory let out freak models from time to time that differed slightly in spec.

My type 1 F3.8 does have one unusual feature that I have never seen on an Old Standard though. The four large screws on the front plate (I think they hold the shutter in place) are Nickel plated, like those fitted to the original Rolleiflex. Every other Old Standard that I have ever seen has had black painted screws.
Of course they are easily replaced, but why? They are a matching set and have the same amount of wear (eg rubbing and slight corrosion) as the other Nickel plated parts. In short, to me they look like they have been fitted to the camera since day one.

Now thats probably a mystery too far!

[sjperry]

[Edwardsbrother]

Hello all. I am new to the site and just purchased a STANDARD 6RF 622, 75/3.5 TESSAR IN COMPUR . The SN is 183,735 . Camera has red bubble and slide hatch on the bottom along with the exposure guide on the back. I'm trying to pin a year and hopefully month around when this camera was made. I have not received it yet but am guessing it has the bubble level in the mirror and is a Type III by reading what's already been said. The camera is in excellent-good condition but shows obvious cosmetic signs of wear from what i can see. would love to know more! - Edwardsbrother

[Edwardsbrother]

Here's my Standard 6RF 622 75/3.5 Rollei. SN: 183,735. Note the slide hatch on the bottom and exposure table on the back. Hope you all find it interesting!